DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain

The resentment festers beyond Harriet Christian. Top Clinton fundraisers are angry and not sure they trust Obama, the New York Times reports:

Lynn Forester de Rothschild, a top Clinton fund-raiser, telecommunications entrepreneur and member of the Democratic national convention's platform committee, said she had questions about Mr. Obama's trustworthiness. If he does not answer them, Ms. de Rothschild said she would at least consider voting for Mr. McCain or even working for him.

"I love my country more than I love my party," said Ms. de Rothschild, who said she had been receiving entreaties from both Mr. Obama's and Mr. McCain's backers. "I can't just fall in line."

The Clinton campaign's senior fund-raising officials have been holding conference calls with fund-raisers by region over the last few days -- some two dozen in all are planned -- to urge them to plunge in on behalf of Mr. Obama for his general election showdown with Senator John McCain, the presumed Republican nominee. But several people involved in the calls said it was obvious from the tenor of them that emotions remained raw for many.

While it appears that many Clinton backers are poised to begin
immediately raising money for Mr. Obama, the presumed Democratic
nominee, several categorically ruled that out in interviews. Others said they drew the line at collecting cash for the Democratic National Committee, whose chairman, Howard Dean, angered many Clinton donors over how he handled the dispute over whether to seat convention delegates from Florida and Michigan.

"The Obama campaign has a lot to show me before I will consider being there for them," said Susie Tompkins Buell, co-founder of the clothing company Esprit and a longtime friend of Mrs. Clinton.

Ms. Buell said she wanted to see how Mrs. Clinton was treated over the next few weeks, a sentiment that she said was shared by many of the women, especially, in her donor network.

"Hillary has asked us to do all we can for Barack," she said. "I
listen to that and respect that, but personally I need to evaluate."

It says Lanny Davis is willing to raise money for Obama -- if first he can hear explanations for some personal attacks toward Hillary -- but the DNC will not get "one penny" from Davis or his friends.



Display:


How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (2.00 / 1)

These people appear desperate for further ridicule.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:34:03 AM EST

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (2.00 / 1)

So I guess the DNC will fire her right,  I accept we will always have some DINO's   BUT NOT IN THE FREAKING DNC!

Thats NUTS!!!


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:12:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's what I'm taking from this thread. (2.00 / 5)

Seriously - someone who's got a job in the party simply because she's rich and well-connected really shouldn't be complaining.  This is the sense of entitlement that drives people absolutely nuts.

Plus there's the "holy fuck" realization that there's someone who's actually considering voting for McCain whose job it is to set the Democratic Party's platform.  Ms. Rothschild has "McAuliffe appointee" written all over her - it's how the party has always done business.  They give jobs to their rich friends in return for loyalty.

If any lasting good can come out of Barack Obama being the nominee, it will be an end to this sort of deal.  A total end to patronage is complete pie in the sky, but the decentralization of the party's fundraising is a REALLY, REALLY good start.

Because people like this really have no business being in the leadership of the party.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:36:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (1.00 / 7)

You people really DON'T get it , do you? We told you all along we wouldn't go along with Obama, or the DNC, after the horrific and disgusting way Senator Clinton was treated, and now you act surprised? And you continue to hurl demeaning insults? Forget it, you are digging yourselves in even further, if that were possible. We haven't heard one apology to Senator Clinton from Obama and his cohorts, and Clinton supporters are still threatened and abused. You even had the nerve to crash our concession day gathering with your creepy "Yes we can" crap that completely creeped us out. Stay away from our meetings, you aren't wanted there. We have one answer for you - Party Unity My Ass. You will be hearing a lot more about PUMA in the days to come, we are organizing. You wanted to play hardball, well, you've got the game you wanted.


by 07rescue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:32:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They crashed her concession speech? (1.00 / 0)

Have not heard this.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:37:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (none / 0)


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:49:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (2.00 / 1)

Dean was treated worse and he stayed in and did a lot of hard work for Kerry. Get a grip. Hillary is not the first person to get mistreated.


by Pravin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:50:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (2.00 / 3)

oops... hit post before typing anything.

Let's address this one thing at a time.

We told you all along we wouldn't go along with Obama, or the DNC, after the horrific and disgusting way Senator Clinton was treated

Exactly how have Obama and the DNC treated Sen. Clinton in a "horrific and disgusting way"?  By running a primary campaign against her (as Obama did), and engaging in what are fairly run-of-the-mill primary election attacks?  By making a single decision that didn't work out in her favor (as the DNC did), a decision that would have had absolutely no impact on the outcome of the nomination had it gone differently?  Where is the "horrific and disgusting" in there?  I'd like you to point it out to me.

We haven't heard one apology to Senator Clinton from Obama and his cohorts

And exactly what do Senator "Obama and his cohorts" owe Sen. Clinton an apology for?

Clinton supporters are still threatened and abused

Threatened?  By whom and where?  And since you seem to be attributing this not only to Sen. Obama's "cohorts" but to Sen. Obama and his campaign, please present links in which Sen. Clinton's supporters are "threatened and abused" by the campaign.  Let's see it.

You even had the nerve to crash our concession day gathering with your creepy "Yes we can" crap that completely creeped us out.

Evidence or retraction.

We have one answer for you - Party Unity My Ass. You will be hearing a lot more about PUMA in the days to come, we are organizing.

Ahhhh yes, the Clinton supporters who apparently have absolutely no understanding or value for the things Hillary Clinton stands for.  The Clinton supporters who are allowing their bitterness and anger to cause them to stand up against women's rights, against the working class, and for war by supporting John McCain.  You have fun with your little PUMA gatherings, but please don't bother the people who are actually trying to get some good done by getting a Democrat elected.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:57:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (2.00 / 1)

Nice response. I was going to say something along the lines of:

Good riddance. Filthy opportunists who care more about their personal allegiances than the party or the country should hit the road. If this party can't stand for the right things, then it shouldn't stand at all.

Getting rid of the DINOs and the triangulating leeches is step one. I think we'll still win the election and it will be my great pleasure watching these types on the outside looking in without a party, a shred of personal dignity, and a bitter existence on top of it all.

The good people who worked and fought for Senator Clinton deserve credit for their loyalty, vigor, and commitment to democracy. They deserve our respect and our thanks and our eternal appreciation. Joining the Obama effort is a tribute to all those qualities and I feel proud to be associated with them. The people who threaten to vote for McCain should do just that, then make like a tree and leave.


by mikeplugh on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 07:25:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Play all you want. It's just sad. (none / 0)

Former supposed Hillary supporters who are now working against her. It's really quite pathetic actually. It makes me wonder exactly what about Hillary you were supporting. There's another good diary up at the moment about Republican 527's. All the supposed PUMA groups of Hillary enemies are doing is adding their names to that list. The GOP welcomes you.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:26:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (none / 0)

We?


by niksder on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 10:24:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How well did threatening Pelosi work out? (none / 0)

Is that snark?


by venician on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 07:50:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rothschild? (2.00 / 2)

As in THE Rothschilds? I didn't know they existed in America. Hell, I thought most American Jews were schlumps like me.


by elrod on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:35:36 AM EST

Re: Rothschild? (2.00 / 0)

Yep, She married into the british branch appearently .


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:14:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 1)

Uh huh.

What personal attacks did Senator Obama perpetrate against Senator Clinton? Or are we going with the "the media was mean, it's Obama's fault" line of thinking again?

Interesting also at this point Obama's getting more money from major Republican donors than McCain. I don't think he should have to address every disgruntled former Clinton fundraiser who threatens to vote for McCain if they aren't pandered to.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:36:42 AM EST

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 2)

His campaign called her a liar , dishonest , would do anything to win ,( those poll tested words ) almost on a daily basis when the contest was still wide open.

Of course some won't remember that.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:40:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (none / 0)

No problem, then I'm sure you can source that for me coming directly from the Obama campaign- preferably Obama himself.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:41:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 1)

I don't believe I have the time to pull those press releases of Axelrod from the file I kept it.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:44:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 2)

Well, next time, post evidence with your assertion- it'll save us all time and hassle. ;)


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:54:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (1.00 / 3)

LMAO ragekage doesn't remember insults to Hillary.

I guess this DNC woman is a 'republican mole' like me, right ragekage, you troll?


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:00:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama implying Hillary has no morals (none / 0)

"The evidence" - That's the bullshit which will persist with some individuals here.

All of us dont sit on web to collect evidence and keep it ready for blog warfare. We believe intellectually honest individuals do remember the role each side played.

If you are really honestly interested in an evidence, go thru Obama's ads on Hillary before and after Iowa. It is an ad approved by Obama. If I say that you will do anything or say anything to get elected (implying that you dont have any morals and you are a liar), will you cherish such character assasination?


by Sandeep on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:03:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, and Mark Penn wanted to emphasize the lack of Obama's "americanness". This is while he was with the campaign in good standing. If you are going to hold Obama responsible for every attack , then hold Hillary responsible for the others.


by Pravin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:51:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (none / 0)

Some wont remember that because character assasination is a selective task for them. See my post below regarding the evidence and what Obama implied thru one of his ads.


by Sandeep on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:06:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i can (as of 03/16/08: (2.00 / 6)

Among other things, they have described HRC - and her campaign - as:

"Disingenuous"

"Too polarizing to win"

'Divisive'

"Untruthful"

"Dishonest"

'Calculating'

"Saying and doing whatever it takes to win"

"Attempting to deceive the American people"

"One of the most secretive politicians in America"

"Literally willing to do anything to win"

"Playing politics with war"


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:54:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i can (as of 03/16/08: (2.00 / 3)

See? Canadian Gal actually backs up her assertions with some evidence.

Now, the question is, do we want to play the he said/she said game? Senator Clinton certainly said just as many, uhm, interesting things about Senator Obama- but this isn't second grade, it's politics. Are we going to haul both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama into the office and demand they apologize to each other and hug? Or are we going to realize it was a contentious primary season, harsh words were exchanged on both sides, and we need to move on?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:58:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

exactly - it would be pointless. (2.00 / 2)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:01:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Disagree cgal (1.00 / 0)

I am a Dem, but I was shocked at how they spoke of her. I watched - the worse she said was McCain had more experience. That was bad.

But Kerry morphed Dean's face into Osama bin Laden's. That's pretty bad too.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:08:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Really? (2.00 / 2)

Saying McCain had more experience was the worse she said? You don't think implying that he didn't pass the "Commander in Chief threshhold" was as bad?
by shalca on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:09:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i can (as of 03/16/08: (none / 0)

" but this isn't second grade, it's politics. "

- So why act like you didn't know Obama and his campaign attacked Clinton's character  ?.

Anyone who wasn 't interested in playing games would not have acted to way you did.

If you were following the primary half awake , would know that on a daily basis his campaign released memo's attacking her character right from Iowa  instead of asking for folks to go dig up evidence of  things that were obviously happening back then.

" Now, the question is, do we want to play the he said/she said game? "

- Thats exactly why I didn't respond to your asking for evidence.

I happen to think its a waste of time.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:06:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i can (as of 03/16/08: (none / 0)

According to the rundown Poblano did, things didn't get hot until after Super Tuesday, and after Wisconsin in particular in both instances. But, again, seems like we're on the same page. The diarist is another story, however.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:12:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

poll-tested words, did Halperin say this? (1.00 / 0)

If true, Obama was playing to win the primary. Not the G.E.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:29:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: poll-tested words, did Halperin say this? (2.00 / 2)

Nope .

Didn't you notice these words were carefully selected .

" do anything to win " , " dishonest " , " say anything " " untruthful " etc , these were all words pollsters were finding out were  associated with Clinton.

It is not a coincidence those were the same words used to attack her by the Obama campaign , infact any opposing campaign would probably have done the same .

Infact the republicans were already signaling they were going to use these attributes that had been developed over the years with the public due to all the attacks and defining by the republicans against her if she made it to the general.

He didn't say they were poll tested words but it was clear that was his insinuations.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree , it doesn't take a genius to understand they were reinforcing the existing sterotypes that were there over the years with the words they used to attack her.

Polls that were coming out then showed voters attributed these words to her.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:38:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: poll-tested words, did Halperin say this? (none / 0)

And Hillary's campaign did plenty of under the belt attacks on obama. Stop the whining.


by Pravin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:52:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Under the belt? (1.00 / 0)

Like what?


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:03:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh like he's inexperienced (2.00 / 1)

or... Jesse Jackson won South Carolina. Or ... the only anti-war act he made was a speech in 2002 and that he did anything else is a "fairy tale".


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:04:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh like he's inexperienced (none / 0)

Jesse Jackson did win South Carolina.  I like Jesse Jackson, by and large.  Being compared to Jesse Jackson is not a horrible slur.  Why would you think it is?


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:51:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: poll-tested words, did Halperin say this? (none / 0)

LOL , it's like hey we dont believe or remember if Obama attacked her. Where is the evidence? And then some one shares those and out comes the response - stop the whining.

You just need to grow up because no one is whining. People are just discussing and sharing info because some are "acting" intellectually dishonest (and that doesnt mean they are dishonest).

Party unity comes first but dont "act" intellectually dishonest because then we will slow down the unity process. Just own up the shit as it comes along and move on for our main goal in Nov.


by Sandeep on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:14:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: poll-tested words, did Halperin say this? (none / 0)

Bullshit, I just posted a diary where Penn wanted to go after Obama not being American enough. It is irrelevant that overall, a lot of the staff was not for such tactics. Hillary still hired a scumbag like him the same way Obama hired Axelrod. The only reason Penn got fired was because of his inability to deliver. Both sides have hired scumbags.

It is whining because a lot of the Hillary supporters onMYDD have acted like Hillary is all good while Obama is a terrible human being. They take every trivial issue and blow it up and complain about it for months.

I have actually put up diaries taking Hillary's side  over Obama's supporters despite my lack of enthusiasm for her candidacy. So stop the fucking lecture and grow up. Other than sricki or a couple of others, I have not seen most of you be remotely evenhanded during this primary.


by Pravin on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 04:53:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i can (as of 03/16/08: (none / 0)

I remember being introduced to the concept of heat being part and parcel of a kitchen.


by niksder on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 10:26:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i can (as of 03/16/08: (2.00 / 2)

Thank you.

It seems some folks just slept through the primary season.

You can add this report to it.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articl es/2008/03/22/obama_attacks_clintons_ver acity/


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:58:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's what I was looking for! n/t (2.00 / 1)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So? (2.00 / 1)

It's a primary, what do you expect them to do, dance the Charleston? Of course they're going to attack each other.

None of what was said there was sexist however.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:01:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i can (as of 03/16/08: (none / 0)

i was a clinton supporter til about april, and i agree with all those descriptions of her campaign! thats why i switched to Obama.


by huwcs on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 07:21:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i don't have a single problem with any of those... (2.00 / 1)

descriptions.  if you need to take offense at those, feel free.  those are rather soft accusations to be found in a competitive primary.  several of them are clearly, unquestionably true.  it's good we learned that in the primary...


"This is the time for resolve and steady leadership" -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:04:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice character (none / 0)

So from now on we can call you a liar and one who has no morals? It's really unquestionably soft accusation in your own words.


by Sandeep on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

feel free... (none / 0)

i don't know if you noticed, but this is america.  you are free to think whatever you like.  strange enough, people actually do!  so i can't stop you from making up shit if you like, and i don't care if you do.

the difference between you making something up and how voters actually felt about hillary is that they thought they knew her.  that was her only real advantage in the campaign.  if you need to go around and call me a liar because you are so upset that hillary lost, then go for it.  whatever makes you feel better.  it won't change voter perceptions of sen. clinton, but i'm pretty sure that wasn't your goal...


"This is the time for resolve and steady leadership" -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 09:25:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ragekage, I don't think Obama (2.00 / 1)

should have to apologize for every negative thing he said about Hillary, just as she shouldn't have to apologize for everything she said about him. However, I believe lori is correct, except that I doubt he said all those things on a daily basis. Those things did come from his campaign and from Obama himself.

Naturally, there was mud flung on all sides. I think perhaps Obama supporters could argue that more came from Hillary's side, but Obama can play hardball, too.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:59:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Attacks from Obama's side more personal (2.00 / 1)

That's what I observed. "She's crazed for power" kos said on his blog (OK kos is not official campaign person as far as we know, he's taken payola in the past without disclosing it until later.)

But the Obama campaign emails said Hillary was "desperate" and such.

And what was spouted about Hillary from the pulpit of Trinity United by not just Wright, but Pfleger too, has yet to be fully addressed.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:02:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary said some things (2.00 / 2)

I wish she hadn't, too. Some of it was pretty personal. Do we really want the candidates to have to apologize to each other for everything? Seems a bit tedious.

As for the church stuff... Obama criticized Wright's beliefs, broke ties with him, chastised Pfleger, and quit TUCC. What more can you ask of him?


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:11:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh it was a tepid apology (1.00 / 0)

and he never apologized to Hillary. It was wrong, and saying nothing in the face of that behavior encourages more of it.

If he wants to lead, he has an obligation to stand up to that behavior. His silence, because he is prominent, only encourages more of it.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:14:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh it was a tepid apology (2.00 / 2)

He actually did apologize to Sen. Clinton for Pfleger's remarks.

Moreover, is Barack Obama now responsible for addressing everything everyone says, ever?  Seems like you're holding him to that standard by demanding that he apologize further for words he didn't speak.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:32:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Uh it was a tepid apology (2.00 / 0)

If what he did is considered silence I probably don't want to know what you consider standing up to that behavior.
by shalca on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:13:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ragekage, I don't think Obama (2.00 / 1)

Indeed, this is what I was driving at- see upthread.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:04:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ragekage, I don't think Obama (none / 0)

" However, I believe lori is correct, except that I doubt he said all those things on a daily basis. "

- I didn't say that.

I said " almost " on a daily basis.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:10:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, I stand corrected -- apparently misread. n/t (none / 0)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:12:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, I stand corrected -- apparently misread. n (2.00 / 1)

Well if I made a mistake conveying that impression , then I correct it.

Its not productive to ask for apologies for the petty back and forth , however I was fllowing the primary really intensely and the memo's coming from the Obama camp then were deeply personal and it was painful for me as a supporter.

It had very little to do with policy , it was all these poll tested words associated with Clinton .

Like she would do anything to win , dishonest , say anything , these were all character attacks and were the weakness polls showed she had .

It was skillful on the part of his campaign.

Mark Halperine had all the memos and was the only one calling out the Obama campaign then on " the page ".

I am sure if I search his archives I can get the memo's.

Like I said its water under the bridge and his camp obviously played to win.

You don't hat after the fact , congratulate lol.

I apologize if I came off rude , I don't intend to convey it like it was an every day thing.

I didn't really think the campaign was that harsh anyway , however those that have a personal relationship and investment like Lanny davis I can understand why they would be upset with the attacks because it was on character and on a personal level.  


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:20:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ah, I stand corrected -- apparently misread. n (none / 0)

" Hate " not " hat ".


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:21:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, you didn't come across as rude. (none / 0)

And I remember exactly what Obama and his campaign did -- and what they didn't do about people like Jesse Jackson, Jr., who stepped WAY out of line. But yes, it's water under the bridge. No point in holding grudges.

The campaign felt pretty harsh to me, but I think I was too emotionally invested. It felt a lot worse than '04, anyway.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:27:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ragekage, I don't think Obama (none / 0)

Funny.  Believe it or not, one of the attacks against Obama (and arguments for Clinton) was that he wouldn't play hardball.  Too weak to go up against the Republicans.


by niksder on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 10:42:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have never (none / 0)

believed he was too weak to go toe-to-toe with the Republicans.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 11:59:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 1)

It would appear that these Clinton backers simply want Obama to apologize for fighting a tough campaign and winning.

He ran an effective and strategically superior operation, stayed on message, and remained respectful enough of his opponent NOT to use attacks that might have been used against her should she have won the nomination.

But had he NOT fought hard, and taken advantage of opportunities to frame his opponent and hit back effectively, he'd he'd have been castigated as too weak and inexperienced to win a general election campaign.

It's the winning part that really seems to grate. It's going to take some time, but eventually even these folks will come to their senses.


Know Your Rights!
by BobzCat on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No I don't think so. (1.00 / 0)

Howard Dean is the target of much of their ire.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:42:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No I don't think so. (2.00 / 2)

He's their strawman, then. They want to blame somebody, anybody, but the candidate herself.

This'll go on for a few more weeks, especially since the media is reluctant to let the drama go, and will keep putting cameras in the faces of those looking for attention, even as their numbers dwindle.


Know Your Rights!
by BobzCat on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:46:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The donors in that article (1.00 / 0)

can survive a McCain presidency.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:26:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sure they can (2.00 / 1)

but we can't.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 09:13:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No I don't think so. (none / 0)

Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi are targets because it's unassimilable that Barack Obama could have won on his own merits.  So they blame "the party".


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:07:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Pelosi in late Feb was for Obama (2.00 / 1)

and was explicit. Pelosi is chairing the convention, so that was not exactly appropriate.

Dean punted revote plans by giving both candidates complete veto power over revotes in MI and FL. So even if Clinton were the nominee right now, she would be seen as illegitimate because of the MI and FL mess.

And frankly, we're scratching our heads that Dean never vetted Obama.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:32:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (none / 0)

The word liar was never used.  Of course he could have linked that to Tuzla and he would have been accurate.

And he was right, she DID try to do anything to win, but that's politics.

You know, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.  


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 07:31:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i want the money quote on... (2.00 / 3)

"His campaign called her a liar... almost on a daily basis."  i understand the need to exaggerate (losing sucks!), but i think you've gone over the line here.  a link to the press release or video would do.

of course, given hillary's various accounts of landing in bosnia "under the threat of sniper fire" and the video record of that actual event, everyone in the country thought she was dishonest.

repeating the rather public view that hillary would say or do anything to win can hardly be called a criticism of her.  unless, of course, you want to argue what the definition of is is.  that phrase didn't need to be polled tested -- we found people in iowa saying that 16 months ago.  it is pervasive.  you really, really have to wonder about her pollster...


"This is the time for resolve and steady leadership" -- Barack Obama
by bored now on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:01:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 2)

I TRULY do not understand how anyone who contributed to Clinton can consider McCain for a flash of a heartbeat and then claim it's because of 'love of country'. Have these folks been paying attention?

I mean, I can understand not necessarily wanting to raise money for the DNC or even Obama, but to actually consider raising cash for McCain? Stunning.


by EvilAsh on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:36:49 AM EST

She's received entreaties from McCain too (bold!) (1.00 / 0)

"I love my country more than I love my party," said Ms. de Rothschild, who said she had been receiving entreaties from both Mr. Obama's and Mr. McCain's backers.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:38:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's received entreaties from McCain too (none / 0)

Yes, and? McCain's desperate, like I said, Obama's getting more from Bush donors than him. He needs a rift in our party more than anyone, and he'll exploit it however he can.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:42:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Duh! (1.00 / 3)

He (McCain) needs a rift in our party more than anyone, and he'll exploit it however he can.

Wow you've been in politics a long time we can tell. Did you just realize this?


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:48:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Duh! (2.00 / 1)

That was sort-of to point out the disingenuity in thinking McCain has pure motives in seeking out Clinton supporters, or actually cares about them. But who cares, eh?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That is obvious (1.33 / 3)

You'd have to be ultra gullible not to know that. Oh wait...


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:05:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That is obvious (1.50 / 2)

You might want to wander over to Hillary's Bloggers, Hillaryis44, No Quarter, etc, and let them in on that little tidbit, then.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:11:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is not a site just for "good news!" (2.00 / 1)

In fact, this is an important article, and I'm glad the diary was posted here to keep us informed.

There are some significant issues bottlenecking unity, with this being an important one, IMHO; and, it's why I rec'd the diary.

It's also why I posted my diary on the 527's.

This is about knowing our obstacles--and OVERCOMING them--so we win in November.

If someone wants to spend all their time reading pro-Obama stuff--and little else--they can go someplace else for that. That's what makes this place different from most other blogs!

Telling the diarist to go to NoQuarter or HI44 is just as bad, if not worse, in terms of creating divisiveness in the Party, than anything this diarist is saying.

If we can't "tell it like it is" here, because it offends people looking for "the echo chamber," the answer is not to turn THIS place into just another echo chamber!


by bobswern on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 09:40:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 1)

I wonder how that moron feels about mcCain smiling when some supporter asked him in public ":how do we beat the bitch" referring to Hillary.


by Pravin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:54:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That was mild (1.00 / 0)

compared to the rest of what went on this season.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:02:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That was mild (2.00 / 1)

That sticks out for a bunch of reasons: the laughter in the room, the laughter by John McCain, and the fact that he called it an excellent question.

There were other things as bad, but they were either a)ALSO from Republicans, or b)earned an immediate rebuke, followed by an apology from the person who said it.

The comparison of Hillary Clinton and the character in Fatal Attraction is comparable, but the guy who said it was brought to heel immediately.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:11:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The media treated that as unacceptable (1.00 / 0)

Also, it was spoken by her Republican adversaries, not by her Democratic colleagues.

At this point the pugs know they can't get away with that kind of talk if they want to win any more elections.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:30:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 3)

If Clinton is not chosen as VP , another round of unity would be needed .

I suppose that is what is meant by they " would like to see how she is treated in the coming weeks ".

Obama is in an akward position because of Clinton's public show of interest , which I think was handled akwardly.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:38:25 AM EST

What does that mean "show of interest" (1.00 / 0)

who handled what awkwardly?


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:39:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

re (2.00 / 3)

I believe the word is self explanatory.

Hillary clinton and her aides handled it poorly in my opinion.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:42:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What? (2.00 / 1)

So the first female to get this close to the nomination does not concede Tuesday night.

Is it because a woman had the temerity to be (gasp!) ambitious that people are so burned up?

People were phonebanking their hearts for her out until 8pm Pacific Time that night. She EARNED those bragging rights - Democrats TRUE DEMOCRATS should be PROUD they had two such awesome candidates.

This prima donna prancing by people on behalf of Obama is most unbecoming.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:47:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If it was Ted Strickland (none / 0)

threatening to take it the convention, the response would be the same.

It has nothing to do with a woman being "ambitious." It has to do with a candidate who seemed to refuse to accept a defeat. Didn't matter if she was a she or he was a he.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:50:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What? (1.25 / 4)

Let me fix that for you.

"So the first AFRICAN AMERICAN  to get this close to the nomination does not concede Tuesday night.

Is it because a BLACK MAN had the temerity to be (gasp!) ambitious that people are so burned up?

People were phonebanking their hearts for her out until 8pm Pacific Time that night. She EARNED those bragging rights - Democrats TRUE DEMOCRATS should be PROUD they had two such awesome candidates.

This prima donna prancing by people on behalf of Obama is most unbecoming."

It goes both ways.

It was a race. Somebody loses and somebody wins.

You just sound incoherent when you rant like this.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:51:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly. (2.00 / 1)

If the Obama had lost but not conceded the night of, we wouldn't be hearing a peep from the media because of the historic nature of his candidacy.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:53:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So you DO KNOW there's still a general election (2.00 / 1)

to win, do you not? You do know you have to WIN votes, you cannot coerce them?


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:54:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So you DO KNOW there's still a general electio (none / 0)

Yes, we get it. You may vote for Obama but you'll do it kicking and screaming and'll go for any way to undercut him if you can find it. But at least New Hampster, TeresainPA, etc, are honest about it.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:02:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Voters outside the blogosphere (1.00 / 1)

So that's only three votes so far: me, New Hampster, Theresa.

This is your first campaign right?


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:04:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voters outside the blogosphere (none / 0)

Right, which is why we don't care.

There are lots of reluctant Clinton supporters who DON'T go out of their way to insult people.  I'll concentrate on them.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:15:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voters outside the blogosphere (2.00 / 1)

Believe me you dont have to concentrate on anyone except you (dont take it in a bad way and I will explain below).

I have friends who are Obama supporters. I am a Clinton supporter so I have friends who like/respect Clintons a lot. Most of the Clinton supporters are slowly working towards the idea of voting for Obama for the sake of our ideals, our party, our issues, etc even though it hurts at times to think about it. Some are even thinking of getting involved in the GE campaign for Obama. And then there comes some rude or insensitive or intellectually dishonest Obama supporters who say something disrespectful and people are pushed 2 steps back. And these are not McCain trolls on a website, these are people who meet in real life.

So when I said concentrate on you, I meant we need to be honest, own up the shit which happened in campaign, not downplay or overplay anything, and just show respect to all Democrats. The Clinton supporters will come along eventually, just watch your conduct because you can make that transition easier or difficult based on how you come across to them.


by Sandeep on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:38:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voters outside the blogosphere (none / 0)

Oh I appreciate that.  Are your interactions with your Obama supporting friends more civil than what you get on the internet?  My guess would be yes.

Online it's different and more bitter, because there are no personal attachments at stake.  But overall, there was more than enough bullshit on both sides to go around.  Not by everyone, but both sides had their bad representatives, and everyone condoned things that they shouldn't have.

Speaking personally, as an Obama supporter I'm in an awkward position.  My (second choice) candidate won, and that was completely cathartic for me; no insults from Clinton supporters mattered, and I felt good about everyone and everything.  Not so for Clinton supporters - they have greivances that winning would have resolved, but they missed out on that

So personally, I'm in an awkward position - I want to apologize for all the times I was out of line, but on the other hand there's a notion setting in that Clinton supporters alone were the aggreived party.  Some people believe it explicitly.  So it puts a lot of people in an delicate situation where we want to be empathetic and apologetic, but at the same time not ask for Clinton supporters to apologize to us, which on the scale of absolute right-and-wrong they have just as much reason to do as we do.  But they don't.  And in fact, why should they?  We won, that should be enough.  And it is, but after a while.... well I'm getting rambly, but I hope you get my point.

I'll end this by saying I have nothing but deep respect for Clinton supporters who have put everything behind them and are moving forward despite the disappointments of the primaries.  There are so many people who I've offered my hand to and they've taken it with no questions asked.  They're awesome.


I have that readiness.
by Jess81 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:52:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What? (2.00 / 1)

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Your response simply has nothing to do with what I initially said.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:56:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (none / 0)

At this point Hillary controls whether she is VP.  All it takes is Bill opening his foundation donor lists, because the Republicans are salivating over using that in the general.

That is what many spouting that Hillary for Veep meme conveniently forget.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 07:34:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (none / 0)

I agree with your point there though I dont agree with the word "spouting" as I am a Clinton supporter:-).


by Sandeep on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 08:46:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (none / 0)

No offense meant, my friend.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 05:04:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't care (none / 0)

that choice is theirs and theirs alone...a vast majority of Democrats are supporting the nominee.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:39:13 AM EST

LOL! Fund-raisers?? (1.00 / 3)


I don't think they got the memo.

We don't need the fat cats anymore.

We're 1.5 million strong last time I checked.


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:47:33 AM EST

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (none / 0)

It's just been a week.  Funny how it's like we've been living in dog years.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:47:45 AM EST

Re: DNC Platform Committeewoman May Vote McCain (2.00 / 2)

Ms. Buell said she wanted to see how Mrs. Clinton was treated over the next few weeks

I'd like more explanation of this - because it could be seen as either a call for civility which, given that Sen. Clinton is no longer running for President, will most likely be granted, or as an attempt to extort a running mate nod out of Obama, which is inappropriate.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:36:59 AM EST

I don't think it's extortion (1.00 / 0)

It's a grievance. I think it's that he never apologized for the remarks from the pulpit.

Or you could read upthread.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:40:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think it's extortion (2.00 / 2)

He did, in fact, apologize for Pfleger's remarks.

It looks to me like her attitude is similar to many other Clinton holdouts' attitude - that Barack Obama needs to apologize for winning.  Given that this was an election in which only one person could win, I find that notion extremely problematic.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:43:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So he should say to the country (2.00 / 1)

that remarks like that are unacceptable against a fellow Democratic country.

You see, this may or may not have offended Senator Clinton. But it was offensive to many voters. If he's going to be president he has an obligation to speak out and denounce remarks like this.

I suspect that's what's fueling a lot of this ire coming from her donors.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:51:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So he should say to the country (2.00 / 2)

Let's first make one thing clear: Barack Obama did denounce Pfleger's remarks, in no uncertain terms.

Second, why should he have to apologize and speak out on this?  Is he obligated to apologize and denounce the words of anyone who speaks ill of Sen. Clinton, no matter the time, place, or context?  How much time should he be expected to put in finding, denouncing, and apologizing for other people's words regarding Sen. Clinton?

I find it pretty ridiculous that Barack Obama is held responsible for Fr. Pfleger's words, even after denouncing them and (unnecessarily but wisely) apologizing to Sen. Clinton.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:15:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How old are you? (1.00 / 3)

Do you know about how hate spreads?


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:38:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How old are you? (2.00 / 1)

You didn't address my question.

Exactly whose words are the responsibility of Barack Obama?  Is he somehow obligated to speak out every time anyone anywhere says anything hateful about Hillary Clinton?  Where does this stop?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:48:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Write a coherent sentence. (1.00 / 0)

Exactly whose words are the responsibility of Barack Obama?

Um, when the place he gets his values from spouts hate toward Hillary Clinton (and all white women by implication) he has a responsibility to speak to the public that he denounces that speech.

Until he realizes this I will only vote downticket Dems. I am just one vote, and I alone cannot swing an election, but I cannot condone such weak moral standards with my vote.


by catfish2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:53:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]