Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please...

This diary isn't really for Obama supporters. It isn't for the Hillary supporters who've already vowed to back Obama in the general election. This diary is for those of you who are still hesitant, still hurting, still grieving, still angry, still unable to overcome your pain. I want you to know that I understand how you feel, and I want to talk about Hillary for a moment. I apologize for the length of this diary, but I must admit, whenever I talk about Hillary, I get swept away.

Clinton supporters, we aren't finished yet. It isn't over yet. We'll be fighting from now until November to carry out Hillary's last order, which was to ensure that Barack Obama and his family move into the White House next January.

No, no - don't stop reading! I promise, this diary isn't what you think. This isn't a "do what she told you" diary. I want to tell you how I feel about Hillary, and then I want to give you another reason to fight for her, not for Obama - a reason which you may not have thought of yet. I will announce that reason below in bold so that those of you who don't want to read the rest of my rambling can skip over it. But for those of you who are interested in my long preamble, I'm going to be honest with all of you - I'm going to tell the truth and run the risk that I might lose (or at least diminish) the respect of some of my friends. Let me start with my decision to support Hillary. In the beginning, I chose her because her healthcare plan was superior to Obama's, and because I believed she was more electable than Edwards (and Kucinich, of course, who was not electable at all, but whose policies I favored most). That's it - those were the only reasons. My decision was cold, calculated, clinical, and above all, practical. But somewhere along the line, something changed. It was a big change, and it made me very passionate about her candidacy. Because here's the thing:

I love Hillary Clinton.

No, not in a weird, creepy way. Not in the romantic sense of the word. Not in a way that means I idolize or even over-identify with her. But inasmuch as an emotionally guarded young woman can love a politician she's never met, I love her. It started out simply enough. My natural inclination to play "devil's advocate" led me to defend her against what I perceived as unfair attacks. It's in my nature to rush to the defense of people who are being "ganged up on". (Before you roll your eyes, Obama supporters, keep in mind that it's this same inclination which led me to defend and sympathize with Obama when the Wright debacle began.) So even before I developed an emotional attachment to Hillary, I found myself standing up for her on a daily basis. I was outraged by the MSM's relentless attacks. I was offended by the sexism coming from people like Chris Matthews. I became protective of a woman who, technically, didn't need my protection. I wanted to guard and defend a woman who has been standing up for herself (and for others) her entire life. By defending her and listening to her, I began to empathize with her. I felt like I got to know her.

As I said, I didn't over-identify with her. She's nearly thrice my age, and in many ways, we're remarkably dissimilar. But I fell head over heels for her spirit. I fell in love with her strength, her tenacity, her dedication. I fell for her kindness, her meticulousness, her voice, her smile, and her wit. Hell, let's be honest here - I fell for the whole package. Did I agree with every vote she made in the Senate? Absolutely not. Did I agree with all of her policies? No way. Did I always agree with her tactics? Not by a long shot. But that isn't really the point. No one agrees with anyone 100% of the time. I thought she'd make a better general election candidate and a better president. And I adored her. Still do, as a matter of fact.

February was a bad month for me, for obvious reasons. With muted despair, I watched Hillary lose state after state after state - and these weren't small losses: Obama crushed her by devastating margins. She wasn't prepared. She had miscalculated. I was angry and upset. I was irrational, vicious, petty, sarcastic, demeaning, rude, spiteful, hateful, and mocking. Granted, for every nasty comment, there were two or three reasonable ones, but as you can see, I fell victim to that temptation to lash out. In mid-March, I wrote a particularly loathsome screed, proclaiming that I'd never vote for Obama, and yet, 26 hours later, I was defending and sympathizing with him again.

So what have I accomplished by reminding you of my poor conduct? Well, aside from potentially damaging my reputation - not to mention probably coming across as mentally ill - I've (hopefully) shown you that even the loudest, most "offensive" Clinton supporters can come full circle. Many Obama supporters have called me the "ultimate" Clinton supporter and said that I should be the model for everyone else who supports Hillary (which is far too much praise). They've frequently called me fair, impartial, and reasonable. But looking back at my old comments, I think it's obvious that anyone can "go off the deep end" a bit and become prey to his/her own anger. By late March, I had overcome my hatred, but none of you should give me the benefit of the doubt by forgetting that it was there. I've spent much of the rest of my time here defending both Obama and Hillary when others attacked them unfairly, and criticizing both of them when I felt criticism was warranted. For some reason, this has endeared me more to Obama supporters than Clinton supporters. I think some consider me a faux-Hillary supporter. But I have said before (and will always say) that while my head has been with Obama for a long time, my heart has always been with Hillary. Linfar has expressed a similar sentiment. I don't expect that to change for either of us - or for many other Clinton backers.

Once my anger was gone, I was left only with sadness. I kept making calls for Hillary. I kept donating. But in my heart, I believed it was a lost cause. Throughout February, March, and April, I never cried about it. I'm not a weepy sort of person. I don't cry at weddings, and I've only cried at one funeral (and I've attended an inordinate number of them, for someone my age). But on the night of the North Carolina and Indiana primaries, I thought - for a moment - that Hillary might bring her campaign to an abrupt, unexpected end. And even though I'd known for a long time that it would probably end sooner or later, I still wasn't ready for it to be over. It was too sudden. So, much to my surprise, I sat at my computer and sobbed pitifully off and on for half an hour while reading the comment thread on Kevin's diary. Of course, she didn't suspend her campaign that evening or the next day, and I was extremely relieved. I thought I'd done the last of my grieving, though - I thought I was glad to have it out of the way.

I was mistaken. On the afternoon that Hillary gave her concession/endorsement speech, I felt a tightness in my throat and an unpleasant squeezing sensation in my chest. At first, I could barely hear her voice over the pounding of my heart, but her words of gratitude soothed me quickly enough. I had hoped I could remain stoic as I watched her speak, but my resolve melted away when I heard her say the words,

The way to continue our fight now - to accomplish the goals for which we stand - is to take our energy, our passion, our strength and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama the next President of the United States.  

Even though I thought I was prepared to hear her say it, I broke down again. And when she said Obama's slogan - "So today, I am standing with Senator Obama to say: Yes we can." - I involuntarily let out a choked cry, which was half anguished sob, half grateful laughter, and I cried not only because I was terribly sad, but because I was incredibly proud. I almost wonder whether it's even possible to experience a moment of such ardent pride and fierce admiration without crying. I knew, in that moment, that I would do everything in my power to help elect the man who defeated Hillary Clinton.

But now we reach the part of the diary where I'm talking solely to the Clinton supporters who are saying they'll stay home in November, vote for McCain, or even try to sabotage Obama's candidacy. People are calling you "dead-enders". They're calling you foolish and irrational, but I know that many of you are simply angry - just as I was when I said I wouldn't vote for Obama. Here is the reason I'm asking you to support a man you disagree with (and perhaps even despise) :

I want you to help me save Hillary's career and, more importantly, her legacy.

There are people talking about funding a primary challenger for Hillary's Senate seat. If she campaigns for Obama (which she will), and he wins the election in November, that won't happen. If he loses, however, many people will believe Hillary is responsible, and they'll be looking to punish her.

That may not worry some of you. You may believe that her seat is safe, or that she won't have any inclination to remain in the Senate, anyway. What you also need to acknowledge, however, is that this isn't just about saving Hillary's job. It's about saving her reputation and preserving her legacy. Remember that by helping McCain win in November, you will not be aiding Hillary in a future (potential) run for the presidency. Understand that there will be no 2012 run for her if Obama is defeated. Everyone will be looking for someone to blame, and make no mistake: The media, the Democratic party, the nation, and the world will place that blame squarely on Hillary's shoulders. They'll continue to push the idea that she ran a "scorched earth" campaign. Some have already postulated that she was running for the 2012 nomination.

They're wrong, of course.

It's unfair that they would blame her if Obama lost, but since when have people ever been truly fair to Hillary Clinton? She will get the blame. They'll demonize her, and it will be far worse than anything we've seen so far. All the good she's done, all the people she's helped, all the causes she's fought for - those things will be forgotten. History will not be kind to her. Remember, her campaign was historic, but now that Obama has become the nominee, his campaign will be considered more historic - after all, it was successful. Don't let History remember Hillary as the woman who sabotaged the first viable African American candidate's bid for the presidency. Don't let it take her down as the selfish woman who destroyed the hopes and dreams of this nation. If Obama loses, she'll be almost universally reviled. Her detractors will paint her as a cold, calculating bitch.

Stop them.

It's in our hands.

It's our decision.

Hillary will work hard for Obama, but without people like us, her efforts will be futile. She needs us. Think of the way she fought for us, inspired us, and cared for us. Now it's our turn to fight for her. Yes, of course, we've been fighting all along, but this is bigger than the battle for Pennsylvania, Texas, and Ohio. There's more at stake. Hillary's legacy is more important than her candidacy. This election will go down in the history books - two historic campaigns clashing together - and we will be largely responsible for determining how they remember her.

Help her.

Protect her legacy.

I implore you to do the right thing. If you can't fight for Obama or the Party, then fight for Hillary. You know she'll keep fighting for us, even if she can't be our president. She deserves supporters who care for her enough to put their own emotions aside. We mustn't fail her. Each vote that a Clinton supporter casts for Obama is also a vote cast for her career, her reputation, and her legacy. Don't let John McCain prey on your grief. Remember that, had Hillary won the nomination, he and the GOP and the 527's would have attacked her as mercilessly as they will attack Obama. McCain wants your vote, but he doesn't have your best interests - or the interests of your spouse, partner, parents, children, or friends - at heart.

In the spirit of standing up for both Hillary Clinton and my country, I gladly endorse Barack Obama for president. I pledge to throw my full support behind him. I will work as hard for him as I did for Hillary, in part because she specifically asked me to. I trusted her judgment so much that I wanted her to run the entire country. I will trust her judgment in this. Clinton supporters must do everything we can to help elect Barack Obama. You don't have to think of it that way, though. Just think of it as trusting Hillary and preserving her memory.

As Bill Clinton once said (to Randi Rhodes, oddly enough), "Randi, in primaries you fall in love; in general elections, you fall in line."

Come home, Hillary supporters, and don't just say, "Yes, we can."

Say, "Yes. We. Will."



Display:


Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 2)

Well written, highly recommended...now that HRC endorsed Obama, most of us will support Senator Obama for November election.
However was Randi Rhodes the best reference to end with for a diary trying to rally HRC supporters? Just a thought :)

by louisprandtl on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 04:59:28 PM EST

Heh, I just thought it was ironic, (2.00 / 10)

which is why I liked it. Rhodes is a nasty little person.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

No way will I ever support Obama.


by 07rescue on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:04:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nobody asked you to. (none / 0)

The diarist asked that you support Hillary, and perform the functions that entails.


John McCain: The kids aren't alright, my friends.
by differance on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 09:43:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah I'm first to rec and first to comment.. (2.00 / 2)


by louisprandtl on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:00:30 PM EST

Maybe that means you'll get lots of mojo! n/t (2.00 / 6)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 10)

it is sad that to protect Hillary's legacy, Obama must get elected President.

All of Hillary's many positive accomplishments and contributions to the Democratic party are moot.  All because she went toe-to-toe with another candidate in the democratic primary and had the nerve to duke it out till the end.

Also, I have read comments on dKos who don't give a damn if Hillary campaigns her heart out for Obama and Obama wins the GE - they will still work to get her booted out of the Senate when she runs again.

I am sorry, but Hillary's legacy does NOT depend on Obama's legacy.  For those who want Obama to stand on his own feet and not have Hillary on the ticket (which are a lot of Obama supporters, btw), then they should also accept that if he gets defeated, it is on Obama's shoulders and his alone.  

Just as Hillary's loss in the primaries is her own loss and is not to be blamed on anyone else.  

because in the end, the buck stops with the person who is running.  Not the person who challenged them.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:01:35 PM EST

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 4)

For those who want Obama to stand on his own feet and not have Hillary on the ticket (which are a lot of Obama supporters, btw), then they should also accept that if he gets defeated, it is on Obama's shoulders and his alone.

You're right. Of course they should. But they won't.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:03:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

I am glad you all feel so comfortable talking about what other people should do.

Personally, I agree with you that Clinton will not be to blame if Obama loses- or at least she won't be solely to blame.

But for those of you who are pretending that the things she said are not going to harm him in the General (particularly the comments that compared McCain to him in a favorable light,) you are not being realisitic.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:26:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 2)

then you also better blame Edwards and Biden as well.

they made the same type of comments Hillary did about Obama before they dropped out.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:36:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

Neither Edwards or Biden are taken as seriously as Hillary is. The average voter isn't going to se Biden denigrating Obama and see anything other than an older white man bashing him. EVERYONE knows who Hillary is and thus her opinion carries far more wieght and could be far more damaging.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:19:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, Edwards is taken seriously by the democratic party.

Biden is also.  Just because Hillary stands out more doesn't mean their words should not be held just as accountable.

I know that Edwards & Biden are the darlings of the Obama camp and Hillary isn't, but they all stated the same meme about Obama for a year.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

I wasn't talking about how they are considered by the "Democratic Party" I was talking about how they would be considered by voters. But you already knew that, didn't you?


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 08:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 1)

With all due respect, nasty things were said by both campaigns in the Dem nomination.  Barack didn't use the themes easily available to him that were "unflattering" to Hillary?  Likewise Hillary?  McCain wouldn't have thought to do so himself, or his campaign, and his supporters?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:37:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's just tough talk by some Obama supporters (2.00 / 2)

Truthfully, my perception of Hillary changed when she gave her concession speech. I was worried she was going to sabotage the Democratic Party, and I believed all the conspiracy theories about 2012. However, when she gave that concession speech, and talked about supporting Obama, I heard the conviction in her words, and believed she was going to work her heart out to elect a Democrat to the White House in 2009.

The anger from some of the Obama supporters will go away, like mine did, and yes, there'll be some remaining Obama supporters determined to vote against Hillary in New York. There always will be a remaining few to do that, but the majority of Democrats will support Clinton in her Senate run.


by slinkerwink on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How very sad (none / 0)

that you didn't trust her.


by aggieric on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 10:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How very sad (2.00 / 1)

one should never trust a politician 100%.  It's not sad, it's reality.  The people on both sides who think that their candidate is a saint scare me, frankly.  I support Obama, but he's still a politician.  I support him, in part, because he SEEMS more trustworthy than Clinton or McSame, but I would never say that it was "sad" that someone mistrusted him.

That's the problem with this season - people spent too much time idolizing their chosen candidate.  That, my friends, is sad.


by minimei on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 02:05:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (2.00 / 1)

I think Sen. Clinton's future is in some way tied to Sen. Obama's success -- not for the same reasons the diarist suggests, however.  The larger the margin of Sen. Obama's victory -- if he wins and that's a big if -- and the more House and Senate seats Democrats gain -- particularly the Senate -- the more able Sen. Clinton is able to advance her progressive agenda in the Senate, and turn our noblest aspirations into practical realities.  It's a lot easier to get universal health care through with 60+ Senate Democrats than with 53-54 Senate Democrats.

Sen. Clinton recognizes this.  I hope other progressive bloggers recognize this.


by Brad G on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 2)

it is sad that to protect Hillary's legacy, Obama must get elected President.

i couldnt agree more.  and sricki i rarely disagree with you - and love this diary btw save for your reasoning why.  firstly - i dont believe that 2012 is out if g-d forbid the dems lose.  it will be an 'i told you so' as she certainly will do anything in her power to campaign for a win in nov.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I hope (2.00 / 2)

to god Obama doesn't lose, but if he does, I hope you're right! I just can't bear the thought that they'd try to blame it on Hillary. Mayhap I worry too much?


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i am right. (2.00 / 2)

downthread someone wrote

If the democratic party harms Hillary's career so that further runs are impossible I will never again vote for a democratic president in my lifetime.

that's why.  dont worry... she will work her tush off for him and all will be forgotten, save for the clinton derangement syndrome victims (but they would never vote for her anyway).


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i am right. (none / 0)

The only (slight) chance of Democratic leaders "punishing" Hillary was if she either took it all the way to the convention or gave a half-assed endorsement.  She did neither, so I wouldn't worry about any sort of retribution.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah, but it won't (2.00 / 1)

be the Democratic Party that will be pushing the blame - it will be the MSM talking heads. I've already seen them start to do this, especially when McCain came out with the ad using Hillary's words praising him as being ready to be commander in chief and hitting Obama on experience. They are just testing out the meme now. The MSM already doesn't like Hillary - if Obama loses they will take great glee on pinning it on Hillary and repeating it so often that a lot of people will take it as truth. I think sriki is absolutely right about this one.
by JackieinCA on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 02:15:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, I hope (none / 0)

I thought for a time that it would be blamed on Hillary if Obama loses, but now I think differently.  Assuming she keeps campaigning for him, it won't be her fault.  But if Obama loses, her supporters will get blamed for it.  Or, at least, the most ardent supporters.  I think if Obama loses, there is a good chance for a split in the Democratic party between DLC/older voters and DFA/younger voters.  Maybe that split has already happened, but younger voters will blame older voters if Obama loses.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:42:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

I have read comments on dKos who don't give a damn if Hillary campaigns her heart out for Obama and Obama wins the GE - they will still work to get her booted out of the Senate when she runs again.

I'm a Dailykos regular and a TU, and I have never seen such a comment. Not one time. If someone DID say that please link me so I can speak out about it. Thank you.


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 12:08:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

perhaps we don't read the same diaries or perhaps you don't read the comments as I do.


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 12:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

but if you want a starting point that was recently, look to the diaries on dKos of the night of the last primary and any that were written about Hillary's speech that Tuesday.

lots of angry hill-haters and those comments were in there


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 12:15:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

"Ladies and gentleman.. the next President of the United States!"

The veiled threat drag it out until Denver. Whether or not you agree with it... the honest perception many Obama supporters had was she was trying to create her own self-fulfilling prophesy of "Obama is unelectable"

And it's NOT by a long shot because Obama supporters feared she could win. That worry was gone months ago. It's that she would continue joining forces with McCain and the GOP and NO Democrat would take office in January.

Were some reactionary comments being made that day? I don't doubt it. But it's most definitely NOT a common theme that "we're going to try to screw her out of her Senate seat." I have never once seen someone on DK say that. But I could spend two minutes on MYDD to find threats to vote for McCain.


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 12:38:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 5)

oh, and sorry, sricki - although I agreed with you on why you supported Hillary (as a lot of those reasons were my reasons), I cannot recommend this diary.

I find it insulting that Hillary's legacy is now tied into Obama's prospects at getting elected President.

since when has any other losing candidate in a democratic primary has had their legacy tied in to the winners in such a fashion?


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:04:02 PM EST

It's cool. (2.00 / 5)

I know a lot of people won't agree. I think the reason Obama's candidacy is tied to Hillary's is, the MSM painted a certain narrative, which was that Hillary was trying to kneecap him so that she could run in 2012. It isn't true, but I think it would stick.

Look how the other things they've blamed on her have stuck.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:07:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (2.00 / 2)

it isn't just the MSM that is doing it.  Some of the  supporters of Obama during the primary season (cause aren't we all now Obama supporters?)  did it as well.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, everyone's been doing it. (2.00 / 3)

cause aren't we all now Obama supporters?)  

Good point. I need to get out of that Hillary supporter vs. Obama supporter mentality. Hard habit to break, though.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

I don't know, are you?

It is hard to tell from you comments.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (2.00 / 2)

Oh, so I have to be a fawning, swooning and over zealous in my comments for Obama now?

wow.  If you BOTHERED to read my diaries, you would note that I am supporting Obama.

However, I have several issues with his platform and I am not overly enthusiastic about him.

but - he has my vote.  Got a problem with that?  


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:33:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

Didn't realize I needed to read EVERY diary on the site before I was allowedto share my opinion or ask a question. I missed that in the guidelines.

Your line of commentary left me unsure so I thought I would ask.

Sorry you are so insecure about it that you took offense.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

nope, but you could have done some homework before making such an asinine statement.  Or at least read what sricki wrote back to me in our exchange.

too many times HRC supporters have been called deadenders or trolls because other folks didn't even bother to get to know their history.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

Only those voting for McCain (or pretending to) are dead-enders.  The rest are just Hillary supporters.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:47:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

oh, and what was it in my line of commentary in this diary that prompted you to ask the question?

because I {gasp} defended HRC, the scourge of the progressive movement? /snark


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:20:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

First of all I have never attacked Hillary Clinton on this site or anywhere else. I just happened to prefer Obama to her in the primaries.

Secondly your comments in this thread did not seem to be those of someone who was supportive, in anyway, of the Democratic Nominee.


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 08:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

really?  how so?

because I stated that Obama's loss (if he loses) will be his own fault and not Hillary's?

because I give him more credit than you do about the condition of his campaign?

please - tell me where I smacked down Obama, so that you could somehow come to the conclusion that I was not "supportive" of the democratic nominee?

because you can't - what was missing was the obvious fawning that you were looking for.  Instead, you saw me treat Obama like a political candidate who can run his campaign the way he see fits - which means his wins and his losses will BE HIS OWN.

not Hillary's.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 08:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

oh, and please do tell me how my comments can be written for your satisfaction so I no longer have my support questioned.

/snark


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 08:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (none / 0)

it isn't just the MSM that is doing it.  Some of the  supporters of Obama during the primary season (cause aren't we all now Obama supporters?)  did it as well.


by colebiancardi on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (2.00 / 1)

It is not just the MSM... many Hillary 'dead-enders'
say it too; vote for McCain so that Hillary can win in 2012. They have this slogan: "McCain08 -Hillary12".

Right after Hillary's concession speech
(which was great) on Hillary Clinton's official website there were more than a thousand of comments in that style. Maybe republican trolls, maybe not...


by french imp on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do think many of them were Republican trolls (2.00 / 1)

and many of those comments came from repeat commentators.


by slinkerwink on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's cool. (2.00 / 1)

I think the reason Obama's candidacy is tied to Hillary's is, the MSM painted a certain narrative, which was that Hillary was trying to kneecap him so that she could run in 2012.

That's certainly the impression I had and it had little to do with media coverage. For quite some time it had been clear Clinton had very little chance of winning. It's not that she was waaaay behind, if you're 3 feet behind toward the end of a 100 meter dash you're pretty much finished.

It's not just because she stayed in the race so long. There many reasons why. "He's not a Muslim as far as I know. "He would NOT have been my pastor!" "McCain and I are qualified to be Commander in Chief. Don't know about Obama (paraphrasing)." "Elitist and out of touch and quit frankly patronizing". "Change you can Zerox." Flip-flopping on MI and FL and then trying to infuriate the voters over a decision SHE agreed to and even endorsed.

Bill Clinton is to Democrats and the DNC what Reagan is to Republicans. He's is a very powerful and influential figure with an almost iconic status. Hillary Clinton started out with a 100 Superdelegate lead before a vote was even cast. The powers that be in the DNC aren't stupid and in the end they will do what's best for the party. WHY do you suppose they did a 180 and started rallying behind Obama?

Whether you agree with the 'scorched earth' notion or not the theory isn't based on media programming. The pundits didn't all collaborate in a smoke filled room and say, "OK, this is the plan. We're going to spin it this way." It's Obama supporters drawing their own conclusions from their own observations.


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 12:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, but also, (none / 0)

as I said, this diary isn't really applicable to people who've already said they'd support Obama, and I know you've been willing. So no worries. ;)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 1)

I understand your point but I believe this is the point in her career where she can showcase to an International audience what a class act is. Helping Obama will only help.


by Politicalslave on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

It is a fact however.

Those of us who were more-or-less nominee neutral dems, focused on torture & erosion of the constitution-- and thus on beating Pubs at all cost-- got very angry w the kitchen sink/ Tonya strategy.  

That one candidate would tear down, unfairly and dishonestly, a good hope for ending this darkness because of whatever minor advantages they saw in her-- no our troubles are too huge.

If the darkness grow, many of us will blame.

Hillary just isn't important. Nor is Obama. Screams echoing in the corridors of black-site prisons are.


by wrb on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:31:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You forget (none / 0)

Black site prisons don't exist.  They are a figment of your imagination.  No one is tortured, no one is tortured, no one is tortured....

[swinging a pocket watch back and forth]

/snark (obviously)


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:51:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

1980?  Ted Kennedy's half-assed endorsement?


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 07:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 3)

Rec'd not only for the message, but the detailed description of your attachment to the candidate. That sort of emotional attachment balanced with reason is a powerful motivator for change. To truly feel "represented" by a leader is a wonderful thing.


by Mobar on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:15:57 PM EST

Bravo! There's an excellent article in Salon (2.00 / 4)

about Dean supporters threatening to destroy Kerry's candidacy. I was one of those Dean supporters, but I came full circle, and ended up working for Kerry because Dean told us it was important to do so.

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/20 04/02/04/deaniacs/index.html


by slinkerwink on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:18:56 PM EST

I was very bitter about what happened (2.00 / 3)

with Dean. I wasn't as upset over him as I was over Hillary, but it took me a long time to decide I could work for Kerry. I was never enthusiastic about him.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

same here too. It took me a full month (2.00 / 4)

to grieve Dean's loss. In some ways I still consider myself a Dean Democrat. I know many Clinton supporters still think of themselves as a Clinton Democrat.


by slinkerwink on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 1)

I have often thought that is Barack loses Hillary will be tarred and feathered; looked upon as the scapegoat. super likely considering her treatment thus far. --but I dont like to think about him losing.

I dont really identify with her either, but I guess I would call her my hero? That seems like the best word for it. I have an admiration and respect for her.


[great job, I appreciate the emotional aspect; rec'd!]


by alyssa chaos on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:32:33 PM EST

Re: For Hillary (2.00 / 4)

For months now the media and the DNC have been pushing Hillary out.  They've got what they wanted and should be happy.  But no, now they want her to win the freakin' election for Obama.  Sorry, but he's the one now and it's up to him. Period.  Now that Hillary is out, her constituents in New York deserve to have her back in the Senate full-time working her heart out for them.  

Obama needs to directly engage the citizens of this country, and ought to join McCain for the Town Hall forums -- the more the better. If his campaign thinks it's a good strategy to keep him under wraps, well, that's their choice.


by moevaughn on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:34:02 PM EST

Re: Pushing her out? (none / 0)

I've just not seen it.  Yes, the superdelegates moved in Sen. Obama's direction.  Yes, the democratic party was calling for unity - so many of the long primaries led to democratic defeat, that's pretty standard.  Yes, I think they started pushing for unity too soon, but I don't think it was to push out the Clintons, I think it was fear of what could happen if they didn't unify.  Just because Sen. Clinton isn't our nominee doesn't mean she's not still an important part of our majority in the senate, and a party leader beyond that.  It happens.  When you have a bunch of people running for the same position, at the top, only one can make it.

I agree with what you're saying about Obama's need to get out there, but I think weekly debates are a bit much, especially weekly before the conventions.  We'll see.  And I wouldn't call his sandbagging in IA to be 'under wraps'.


by NoBlinkers on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:52:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sandbagging (2.00 / 1)

is still under wraps in a way -- but more accurately perhaps "stagecraft".  What I mean by directly engaging is taking questions from people like he could do in town forums -- having dialogue.


by moevaughn on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Hillary (none / 0)

You think it is "keeping him under wraps" to have him out engaging the voters rather than flying around the country with McNutty doing stated town hall meetings?

Either you lack the understanding of Presidential elections or you are a Republican Troll..

Which is it?


Hey guys? You know we won right? You can stop the doooooomsaying now.
by JDF on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:30:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Hillary (none / 0)

I disagree, I think McCain needs those town hall meetings more than Obama.  McCain is broke, he is the underdog acc'd to polls, and he is about as inspiring as cauliflower and broccoli.  Not to mention we already know that the Town Hall meetings are stuffed with his supporters.  Plus he did not even try to set these up with Obama, he scheduled them and then sent the schedule to Obama before working with him, so obviously, this is a set up.

On top of all that, Obama's recognition has skyrocketed and McCain is going to use the cooperative demeanor with Obama and the town hall meetngs to set a narrative that he is a middle of the road kind of guy, gets along with Dems, is really a nice, all which we know to be complete and utter bs.  Plus we don't want to appear chummy with this shitbag, he is our enemy and these town hall meetings (12!!!) would definitely make McCain more appealing to those suburbanites that are unsure of who to vote for, they don't want Bush anymore, but hey McCain seems like a nice ole fella.  Therefore, this idea was rightfully kicked out of the park.  McCain gets no free rides, nor do we help him with that.

Debates?  yeah, thats cool, Obama will wipe the floor with that sack


by KLRinLA on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 09:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 3)

Great diary. And I loved looking through those comments. Man, who knew that a 3 months would be such a long time ago.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:36:43 PM EST

Thanks, and by the way, (2.00 / 3)

I found some interesting comments of yours the other day! Do you remember that guy who posted a diary (a month or two ago) about how Hillary always needed a man to stand behind her? We had quite a fight with him. Well, he posted another diary recently, and I went digging through his other stuff and found several angry comments by you and me. I guess a lot of us have gone through that, "We won't vote for Obama!" phase, huh? ;)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:42:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, and by the way, (2.00 / 1)

Oh, god, I was there on the bandwagon all the way for a little bit. I do remember that guy. Ahh, the good ole days...haha :)


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:32:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 3)

I agree that we all Democrats need to get behind Obama.  However I don't agree that Clinton's future is tied to his success or failure.  Sure there are a few people who might work to present a challenger to her Senate seat but I am not too worried about her.  She has shown us that she is a fighter.  She will be fine.


by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:38:29 PM EST

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

Of course she will be fine. We can have more impact if we all get behind the nominee. Senator Clinton is leading and we should follow her example. Putting the first Black person into the White house will add and reinforce her legacy.


by Politicalslave on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:13:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 1)

I admire your selfless dedication. You were devastated by your candidates' defeat but you were
proud of her reaction. I was impressed by her reaction, and yours... and that of many Clinton supporters here on mydd.


I am an Obama supporter from afar, I don't know the intricacies of Washington, so I don't know if Hillary Clinton is really going to be blamed if Obama loses.
However I don't think she should. I must confess that during the campaign, when it had become obvious to me that she could never catch up, I came to believe that she was trying to prevent Obama from winning in November so as to preserve her chances in 2012. But upon hearing her concession speech, I realized that my paranoia had proved wrong, for once...  

Having said that, I'm not sure that the Clinton supporters who now say they will vote for McCain share your selfless dedication. Their stuff sounds brimming over with bruised ego more than anything else. I sincerely hope my paranoia is wrong again and you'll reach out to them...


by french imp on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:45:30 PM EST

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 5)

it's time to move on, it's up to Barack now, not up to Hillary anymore. She took the high road, now it's Barack's turn.  There are far more voters than angry Hillary supporters who need to be won over, help him win them, you're not going to lecture anyone into voting in November. Barack needs to win big, and he'd best start uniting.  He wanted it over, it's over, time for him to get to work.  


what a relief
by anna shane on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:45:47 PM EST

wow (2.00 / 1)

Great diary.

Could you please repost this in the comment section to a few Hillary sites.


by Is This Snark on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:50:05 PM EST

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 2)

What a Diary! What passion.


by Politicalslave on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:56:39 PM EST

Good diary (2.00 / 2)

although I'm not persuaded by your closing argument.

Still, a good diary.


by Coldblue on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:08:32 PM EST

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 2)

Un diario muy excelente. Usted es un crédito a su candidato. Pero pensé que usted era por lo menos 40... ¡Dios mio! ¿Es usted más joven que mí?


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:10:52 PM EST

This is a serious question... (2.00 / 1)

Has someone hacked RK's account?

(This is snark...)

Vraiment sricki est un crédit à son candidat, si seulement plus de personnes étaient comme elle.

Hooray for knowledge of french.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

oops I went into masculine form there with the son (2.00 / 1)

I apologize.

My knowledge of French is a little rusty and since the candidate is female I should have used the female possessive form. also the female form of candidate as well.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:23:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: oops I went into masculine form there with the (2.00 / 1)

Aha! Yet another example of sexism!


by jdusek on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 09:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very impressive (2.00 / 1)

Very impressive use of the right verb tense, mon vieux! I have to ask you SG, my very esteemed colleague who made an unfortunate error in judgement which one prays happen when people are young and are capable of learning from such errors -  if this is an isolated incident - not based on recoiling from sexism in any way that I can perceive, or is this really a case of a person who became a McCainocrat based on the Bush/McCain line that our foreign policy has made people in the US safer.

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/ 291522


by Jeter on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For some reason it isn't loading for me (none / 0)

I'll try again in a while...


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like your first half of the question (none / 0)

Seems like it is channeling Alexandre Dumas.

I do not have a back ground on this person so I can not be certain but from the context of the article, that it appears that the experience angle was a red herring so to speak and that it was really about being upset about the way the primary ended.

There are several hints that point me in this direction:
Someone who is committed to Sen. Clinton is not likely to  make their decisions solely on foreign policy.
Her profession is one that often doesn't get the respect it deserves.
The fact that she announced publicly.
The fact that she rushed to join Citizens for John McCain.

So I would guess that she is recoiling from sexism as her actions are much like other people who are recoiling from sexism, of course as I am young and have less experience in deciphering what people are really saying than an experienced physician like yourself who probably encounters five or more people not quite telling the truth a week in your job.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:49:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, RK. (none / 0)

I'm 23.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, RK. (none / 0)

NO *ing way. I *am older than you. That's unpossible.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh no... (none / 0)

Do I sound like an old person?? Not good.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, not that 40 is old! (2.00 / 1)

Didn't mean to insult anyone around here. 40 isn't old, it's just a lot older than I am. Ack...


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

non (2.00 / 1)

Quarante est trop vieux, dit un imbécile qui a 23 ans.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry, not that 40 is old! (2.00 / 1)

I am 40.  :P  

I am almost old enough to be your mama!


by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 08:28:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, I just realized (2.00 / 1)

it's Father's Day. Happy Father's Day, ragekage!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:48:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hey, I just realized (none / 0)

Thank you! And I was only peed on once. Truly, a father's day of some note.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:43:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aussi (none / 0)

Ce que vous n'avez pas su elle était une personne université-âgée. Ragekage, vous glissez vers le haut de mon bon ami.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 1)

Remarkable sanity, perceptivity & grace


by wrb on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:16:41 PM EST

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 1)

I can count on 2 hands the number of diaries I've reced and this is going to join the list, and then I'm going to find a comment or 2 and mojo them because frankly this is just a brillantly written diary and in a completely non creepy way I'm proud of you (as a fellow human being) for being able to work your way out of your anger and saddness.

You (in my opnion) are an  example to others really and it takes courage to own up to past words.


-7.33, -3.35 The song that best describes life
by drache on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:20:08 PM EST

A very practical and realistic (2.00 / 1)

assessment of the situation.

I am looking forward to Hillary campaigning for the Democratic nominee, in Pennsylvania, Ohil and West Virginia.

And I hope that she retains her Senate seat by helping Obama WIN for the sake of the party, and the future of her career and America.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:26:26 PM EST

Great diary, and deserving of a rec..... (2.00 / 3)

which I gave.
I am thrice your age as I am a year older than Hillary.  
I will vote for Obama, have always said I would.  I would NEVER vote republican and do anything (like not vote) to help a republican win.

However, I am not ready to let go of my anger.
I am not ready to pitch in and campaign for Obama. I am not ready to donate, or wear shirts, or display signs.

I am angry at the sexism.
I am angry at the race baiting.
I am angry that too many Obama folks feel the need to talk down to me, to patronize and to mock.

I want Hillary on the ticket. It's a no brainer.  Hillary as VP and I believe it is a guaranteed win.
In the meantime I will find other Hillary supporters and find my solace with them.


by Jjc2008 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:35:47 PM EST

Re: Great diary, and deserving of a rec..... (2.00 / 1)

Those are all fair reactions, and I respect them and you for them.  I hope the anger will dissipate a bit with time.  Quick question:  How would you feel if Obama picked a woman that wasn't Hillary?  I'm just trying to gauge what the reaction of Hillary supporters would be.  I think it would be a bit of a slap in the face, but I'm not a Hillary supporter.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 08:01:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (2.00 / 2)

I agree - very good diary about your passion for Clinton.  I feel the same way about her.  However, I am still not comfortable with the idea that we all need to save Hillary Clinton by voting for Obama.  I think she is tougher than that, and if Obama does lose (heaven forbid) I am sure that some will blame her.  I still think she will be ok.


by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:37:43 PM EST

I can respect that. (2.00 / 1)

This diary is just one person's POV. I assumed a lot of folks would disagree with me, which is cool. ;)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:39:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And it did not start with Hillary, either (2.00 / 1)

Great Diary. I think that everyone, both Obama and Clinton supporters, and especially those who might consider McCain a viable coive for President to read what the media was noticing about sexism and women in politics. I'm not vouching for the entire contents of the article, but something really, really ugly happened in the media. It's hard to tell if it was a reflection or a beginning of an escalating attack. There are hundreds of similar articles for those who believe that Hillary was not the specific, intended target of sexism in this primary, and that no one but the media had anything to do with it. This is written by a woman

http://tinyurl.com/5xv9hm

My tagline also has a very interesting article copping to the really outrageous sexist and pathological hatred that was directed at Hillary during the campaign. The author, also a woman, holds the opinion that sexism was not the only cause Hillary lost.


by Jeter on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:44:16 PM EST

Re: Fight One Last Battle For Hillary. Please... (none / 0)

Nope.  Can't do.  Corruption, in either party, is wrong.  I too love Hillary, but she can't do what needs to be done right now.  I cannot endorse any candidate that rose to the top through the methods used to get him there.  Period.  It's about ethics.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:46:17 PM EST

I understand what you're saying. (2.00 / 3)

I think quite a few people feel like that. Thanks for reading, anyway, though.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (none / 0)

Wow what a crock. Vote for Obama because Hillary will have a primary challenger for the Senate. I am laughing so hard I fell off my chair. Yup you guys are obviously reading the tea leaves and getting a little scared that the great one won't pull it off so you need to start laying the ground work with the media so you can blame it on Hillary.

Obama can settle this by making Hillary his VP. If she accepts I will vote for that ticket. If not I will not vote in the presidential race or I will write in Hillary.

I have no idea why you were crying in Feb.  34.5 million people voted in primaries and they chose Hillary both by the pouplar vote and by delegates +67. Obama was selected by the caucuses which had only 1.1 million participants though he got +205 delegates from that. The rest of his support came from superdelegates that had visions of money sugar plums dancing in their heads. Believe me if major super delegates had made the choices that Kennedy and Kerry or Tom Daschle made (ie to support the candidate that didn't win their state) and that made a differnce to Obama's win Donna Brazile would have been out there screaming bloody murder about it and threatened to run against them in their state. That is how the Obama-crats do things.

Obama's problems in the general extend much farther than winning back Hillary voters who are mad. He just simply can't get the right mix of states without Hillary. The DNC has failed us once again and A) have saddled us with a candidate who can't win in in Novemeber B) they unecessarily split the party (they could have stepped back and said in such a close race they would'nt do any endorsing until the people had spoken) and C) the obama-crats won't really vote down party anyway so no one wins.

I see no reason to suppport a process or a party that ignores a huge block of voters.


by Bornagaindem on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:47:45 PM EST

Re: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (2.00 / 2)

Um, hey, slowpoke, you do know that Sricki is a Clintonista, right?


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 06:54:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (none / 0)

Duh du jour! yes I do get that but no real clintonista would make the silly  argument  that if Obama loses it is Hillary's fault. I leave that to the Obama worshippers and of course they will try. But the democrats hate general election losers so I suspect when he loses the general his career will be effectively over.  


by Bornagaindem on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:04:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you're out of line here. (2.00 / 5)

<